Hello,
Stable just expanded with a NTM 1973 R75/5. Pretty excited about this. I now have a bike from each of the last four decades. I acquired a pair of Craven Panniers ans rack with it. I have googled until my fingers bleed but can not figure out how to date them. They look exactly like the bags in add in AirBazaar for the Globe s35 sidecar. Any one care to take a stab at the vintage of these bags? While the subject of side cars has come up, I cannot stop seeing this classic black machine with a side car. Would this bike be appropriate for a sidecar?
Thanks in advance,
Tim
Hi Tim! Anthony here....glad to see the bike at home! Did you get her started? Sorry about the weak battery, the cold must have drained her.
Hard to say what year those bags are from, they made those for a loooong time.
Looking forward to seeing that beauty all dolled up!
Antny
Antny
Anthony,
Small little world our BMW clan. Yup got it started yesterday. Rode it all of a quarter mile before an ear fell off and I had to go home. I think the battery is toast, but I will withhold judgment until it is warm toast. Reads OK on a meter, but will not load test. I keep a car battery and small cables for just such and emergency.
Tim
Hah! Yeah, it was a little bit chilly yesterday. I rode my R75/5 to the coffee shop in the am. Thermometer said 12 degrees F. What was I thinking?! Gl;ad you got her to fire up. That's going to be a happy little airhead.
Antny
Any one care to take a stab at the vintage of these bags?
what bags ?? Ken Craven started his business in 1952. depending on the type of locks and hardware made to attach the equip. tells a lot about vintage. now a days these get changed. i make my own racks and adapt many different type fasteners to IMPROVE the usage of Cravens and their usability / stability from cracking
It is a testament to the quality of the original design and manufacture that there are many of these really early panniers still around. A manufacturing company called Craven Equipment, after Vincent Owner Ken Craven, was formed in 1951-2 based in Eden Grove, London and was to dominate the motorcycle luggage market for nigh on 30+ years.
The panniers available were the early square cut paneled glued "Silver Arrow" and the later popular Golden Arrows
Model names were ..... the "Dolomite" "Safari", ... "Chevron", "Concorde" "Comet". & "Concorde" panniers.
&
"Sportsman" & ''Spaceman'' topcase
The "Sportsman" is virtually a "Spaceman" top case but higher.
The "Fairline" topcase.
Low long and slim top box like a Spaceman but very long
i own a Clubman and California, 'Comets' and 'Golden Arrows'. now Stelvio top box
the larger "California" top case made by Pearce of LA.
Early hangers were simple wing nuts holding a set of 'L' hooks. .. hinges were simple using aluminum rivets common to the wwII aircraft era. two alum banding straps were added for strength, that circled round the cases and mostly to 'hold everything together'. also riveted in situ.
early models were simple 'sheets' glued together, all square corners i.e. 'Silver Arrows'. as fiberglas progressed into the middle 50's molds were made, gel coats and finishes developed so the panniers had rounded corners, shiny outside instead of the dull 'sheet' type. Unfortunately the aluminum CRAVEN badge was replaced by a simple decal as costs rose. Not much changed due to a limited market but some new models came about in the 70-80's.
the world of Craven changed because of the space industry's 'GORTEX' material and soft light weight panniers.
the Japanese touring bikes had ABS type molded panniers much later.
rubber 'spool' were a typical mount later on in the 60's . . . . . off 'pins'. and a trendy ''dzus'' fastener that race cars used on engine 'bonnets'.
early handle were a simple leather belt which evolved to sprung steel with leather covering and 2 covered clips held by a single screw.
>> - - - - - -> SILVER ARROWS : < - - - - - - - - <<
simple latches were used up to the early /mid 60's theft was NOT an issue back when.
locking latches in the mid 60's.
i have some old literature in storage
> - - - - - - - >> GOLDEN ARROWS mounted sideways < - - - - - - - <<
i have 3-4+ sets of cravens on my english rides. i have sold some off. i have repaired some
dr. craven
comet style
alloy tag ... riveted to frame.
later sprung handle w/ leather cover. note when this got expensive the sprung steel was covered w/ a flat rubber tube.
handles :
dzus faster lock handle
Dr. Craven member of 'CLUC'
http://bmwdean.com/craven.htm
Craven saddlebags, or panniers as the British call them, were made by Craven Equipment, Ltd., in London, England, founded in 1951-2 by Ken Craven, a keen Vincent Owner. I do not know when Craven stopped manufacturing motorcycle products, but it was taking orders in a 1997-1998 brochure. I bought parts from Cravens ... 1989-2003. I have heard from a couple of correspondents that Craven was still supplying parts in early 2003, but not later, so his company has been sold off to form a new business I think in west UK , , , , Bristol area. My friend Phil Primmer worked there for a while before opening his own company west country sidecars. Phil passed away in mid 2000's
My California Top Box
My Clubman top box
these are Comet Panniers
see also Duane's article re - - - BMW's
http://www.w6rec.com/duane/bmw/bags/craven/index.htm
Dr. Craven member of 'CLUC'
Handles
Dr. Craven member of 'CLUC'
Hello fellow Airheads,
Sorry to hijack this thread.... I found it while doing a search for Craven top boxes.
I'm on the hunt for a Fairline top box, for use with my /2 & Steib sidecar rig.
Any help appreciated.
Ash...
these are Comet Panniers
They may be Vincent Comet panniers, but if not mistaken, they are fitted to a Vincent Black Prince.
Owning an old Airhead is easy.
Keeping an old Airhead running great is the true test.
................. i still do not see the original photo of what started this link thread ....... . . . . . .
you might try looking at this new site
it's called - - - - - - - - CLUC
https://www.facebook.com/groups/524092054746836/?ref=bookmarks
fairline top box
Craven is back in business... I bought a bunch of fasteners and decals from them...they have a history page plus they are very nice folks...they are making new bags and seem to have everything, even a couple of new models...also have all the mounts available..
I also knew Phil and miss him.
Yup got it started yesterday. Rode it all of a quarter mile before an ear fell off and I had to go home. I think the battery is toast, but I will withhold judgment until it is warm toast. Reads OK on a meter, but will not load test. I keep a car battery and small cables for just such and emergency.
Tim
► An easy home test is to 1) check and refill the water level in all cells, then 2) trickle charge the battery at (hopefully) less than 1A for 1/2 day. Then (bike NOT running), leave the headlamp ON low beam for 1 minute. While the headlamp is still burning place a voltmeter across the battery terminals. Your reading needs to be higher than 12.0V, hopefully closer to 12.3V.
Charging places a "surface charge" on the battery. It is a superficial charge and not the REAL battery voltage. The headlamp helps burn off the surface charge to reveal a more realistic battery voltage reading.
► Batteries do go "bad"; no doubt about that. But any battery can exhibit signs of poor health because: 1) it's not chemically capable of accepting a charge (it's become sulfated), 2) the charging system is not delivering a proper charge, 3) the system is using too much power, or 4) the owner is simply not riding long enough. Before you go buy a new battery, I suggest you do some investigating to discover what's going on.
• On these older bikes its just as likely that the alternator brushes are worn out, or that the OEM mechanical voltage regulator has given up. A set of brushes is under $5, and modern, electronic voltage regulators (with zero moving internal parts) start at under $20. (If you go with a sealed AGM battery, then you'll need a special "higher voltage" electronic regulator anyway. Call Motorrad Eliktrik)
• It was VERY common back in the 70's to fit 100W headlamp bulbs. (Remember that these bikes can pre-date 24/7 headlamp laws.) The stock bulb was 65W and these super-high wattage bulbs only complicate matters by consuming too much power. Today we can get MORE lumens (and longer life) from a LED bulb that only consumes 25W.
• Everyone innately understands that 10 minutes on a battery charger is NOT going to make a meaningful difference. However, a lot of owners falsely assume that short 10-15 minute rides WILL make a difference. The charge rates are similar, so how can that be ? When you are riding, you can only count the time spent ABOVE 2800 RPM as meaningful charge time, and you must subtract the time spent at traffic stops because your headlamp is ON and is consuming far more power than the alternator outputs at idle. And to that... discount EVEN MORE if your brake lamp is ON, and then subtract EVEN MORE if your turn signals are being used. This is pure common sense. The mental conception is being incorrectly prejudiced by what your car does on a regular basis, and that is NOT true for your motorcycle.
Hope this helps.
Owning an old Airhead is easy.
Keeping an old Airhead running great is the true test.
I've gotten totally lost with all the side issues but I had a set of Cravens on my first R90/6 in 1974. Fiberglas; locking; dual metal bands, hung on hooks and had a simple cam latch to hold to the rack and a simple rubber seal around the perimeter.
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