I installed an Euro Motorelectric EnDuraLast II Charging System. The problem - Once the battery is fully charged, the voltage drops on the voltmeter about ½ volt and the generator light (Katdash LED bulb holder) starts to glow getting brighter until the voltage drops ¾ - 1 volt and then the generator light would go out, it charges back up and then repeats.
Note:
• When installing the system the EME variable voltage regulator was damaged. Plugged it in to set the voltage but when I attempted to unplug and mount it the connector pulled loose. I ordered a new one (EME charge postage only) and put my Hella voltage regulator back in. Everything worked for the first 500 k then the problems started.
• The generator light seems to go on and start to charge again when shifting or RPM changes.
• When the battery appears to be getting close to charged and you rev up to 5000 rpm the generator light comes on (weakly) then goes out when you back off.
• When it’s not charging and you idle the generator light pulsates.
• If you shut the bike off for any period of time it’s charging again when you start it.
• Initially this problem was intermittent but now it does it consistently.
• Everything else in the electrical system works fine.
Actions taken so far:
• Replace Hella voltage regulator with EME variable voltage regulator.
• Replaced EME diode board. (and went through entire charging system checking every wire and connection with a meter for both shorts and connectivity)
• Replaced Battery
• Replaced Voltage regulator wiring harness. This was the only part of the charging system wiring that wasn’t included with the EME charging system. (and went through entire charging system checking every wire and connection with a meter for both shorts and connectivity)
• Installed a 330 Ohm resister between switched power and D+ wire between the voltage regulator and diode board. (EME work around for gen light issues)
• Replaced EME voltage regulator with Hella.
None of these actions made any difference.
I don’t think it’s the Katdash as the 330 ohm resister didn’t make a difference.
The problem could be heat related as it never happens when the bike is cold (though that could be because the battery is discharged starting the bike) . Heat and RPM makes one suspect the rotor. I’ve had rotor failures in the past and it acted much the same way. Can I put the old rotor back in – is it compatible? The stator and rotor are the only things I haven’t replaced.
So far its never quit all together but it does get nerve racking. I carry a battery charger with me in case I have to stop and find a plug.
I’m getting tired of taking this bike apart and putting it back together. Causing wear on all the fasteners. I kept all the old parts so perhaps I can salvage the old charging system and put it back in ( It actually generated more power as it ran 100% of the time, not 50%). I don’t know of any other way to determine if it’s one of the EME components.
Any suggestions?
Forgot to mention 1979 R100RT
Checked brushes - they were new ones supplied with the charging system. I even re-soldered the connections. From what I understand Katdash has resisters to supply power to the rotor independent of the led. It worked fine with the old charging system.
I have discussed the problem by email with EME and many of the actions I've taken were their recommendations. I just sent them a update and was waiting for a reply. I was going to try the old stator/rotor. I don't believe i can use the old rotor with the EME stator so I'll have to change both.
I'll try the jumper on the VR plug and see what happens. I've got 13.8 V at the battery and tried two different VR's. And new VR wiring harness
• Can you give some more background, please. Why was the alternator upgraded to begin with ? It sounds as if the old unit was working OK if you are willing to re-install it.
• So the way I read this is that the Hella VR is on there currently. What battery are you using ?
• Do you run a headlamp modulator ?
• What other mods have been made to the electrical system ?
On the face of it, it sounds as if you need a replacement VR. My Hella VR burned up within about 9 mos on a completely stock system. I counted it as a fluke and replaced it with an adjustable version, which I had to install anyway due to my new AGM battery. (AGMs like a slightly higher voltage than the older "wet cell" batteries like the OEM.) Now I see Motorrad Eliktrik sells a fixed (non-adjustable) version for AGM. This is why I'm asking you to ID your battery type.
Hope this helps.
Owning an old Airhead is easy.
Keeping an old Airhead running great is the true test.
Why upgrade the charging system? I'm asking myself the same question. I had installed the Hella VR and Thunderchild diode board years ago. I needed to replace some of the wiring (the B+ vibrated loose), new brushes and was going to buy a backup rotor. I had also added a couple of aux plugs and my heated vest doesn't seem to get very warm (I'm in Canada) so I thought I would just buy the new system (was about the same price)
I had an original BMW battery. I replaced it with a sealed unit - Yuasa GYZ High Performance Factory Activated AGM Battery. No headlamp modulator. The only other mods to the electrical was when it was double plugged 30 year ago - Andrew coils and Dyna ignition booster.
I'm going to recheck the voltages today and try to bypass the VR and see what happens. The problem is whenever I test things everything is working. 20 - 30 Km down the road it stops charging. If I turn around and head back by time I get home everything is working again. It could be the VR but I didn't think two of them would fail the same way. I'll check out Motorrad Eliktrik.
Thanks for the help.
Kevin
I just fired up the bike and everything is working - 14.1 volts at the battery at 3000 rpm. It always works in the garage! Insulator Stack? If mean where the stator wires connect I've checked that as well as the Y and DF for shorts and conductivity.
I took a real close look at the rotor and brushes as you mentioned it seemed like a brush problem. I noticed that the inside brush isn't wearing as shiny on the rotor. The outside brush is complete on the commutator slip ring. The inside brush is mostly on the ring but about a 1/16 of an inch is riding on the plastic insulator between the rings. The previous rotors all had a groove between the rings while the EME rotor has plastic cut flat with the slip ring. Rubbing on the plastic appears to be making the slip ring discolor and it wears differently. It could be causing connectivity problems.
Just pulling the alternator. I'm not sure, is there is anyway to move the brushes in? Or I could put a groove between the slip rings.
I took the rotor off (You can’t use the Bosch rotor tool as the EME rotor has different threads!). I noticed that the wear marks on the back slip ring look like the entire brush was on rotor at some point. EME had replied to my last email and said:
"If you pull the rotor off the bike, know the commutator slip rings are a press fit. With care you can move the commutator rings with even leverage with two pry bars on each side taking care not to be on the wires from the stator windings."
I took two pry bars and moved the commutator slip rings forward so the brushes are centered. It didn’t take any prying as it moved very very easily. I left the cover off and took it out for a test ride. It charged up and was working great – ½ a volt more on the voltmeter (~13.8) than before and I thought problem solved. I pulled into a rest area to turn around and all of a sudden the gen light came on an it quite charging. The commutator slip ring had slid back past where it was before I pried it forward and the inside brush was riding on the plastic again. I rode home on the battery.
So it is a rotor problem as the commutator slip ring is moving on the rotor. The “press fit” is loose and when it gets hot the commutator slip ring moves on its own accord. I’ve been looking for this problem for over a year!
I have requested a replacement rotor and a new set of brushes from EME.
Thanks guys for the help. Your replies - sounds like a brush problem and sounds more like a mechanical than electrical problem were correct. I thought it was either something obvious I was missing or something unusual. It never occurred to me that the commutator slip rings were moving on the rotor.
That's amazing ! Glad you were able to find that.
Thinking further, neither slip ring could touch the alternator shaft, so there must be a piece of plastic insulation between the shaft and rings. It's the plastic insulator that's giving way under the heat.
Congrats on the find.
Owning an old Airhead is easy.
Keeping an old Airhead running great is the true test.
EME is replacing the rotor and also sending new brushes. The plastic isn't failing but it's cast on a steel mandrel. The "interference" press fit is loose. When it heats up it gets looser and the winding wires act as a spring to pull the commutator slip rings back at high rpm. Sudden rpm changes or idling seems to move the commutator slip rings back into place. Hence, every time I got it back to the garage the problem had corrected itself.
Update on my EME charging system -
Euro MotoElectrics sent me a replacement rotor and brushes. I installed them and fired the bike up. It worked for a couple of minutes but when I revved up to 4000 rpm it quite charging. I checked everything and as far as I could tell it was the rotor. (I noted that this rotor was different from the last one - remanufactured parts). I removed the EME charging system and re-installed my old Bosch charging system. It worked fine and my bike was charging again.
I emailed Euro MotoElectrics and updated them. They came back and offered to 1) Give me a $299 credit (I bought the EnDuraLast II system through Bob's) or, 2) They would send me an EnDuraLast III charging system worth $399 which contains new stator and rotor manufactured in Italy. I choose the EnDuraLast III system and also ordered new wire connectors and brush holder for the alternator cover. EME upgraded my order and sent me a new alternator cover with all the connectors and new brush holder installed!
I received the new system and installed it. Everything is working perfectly.
I was impressed with Euro MotoElectrics standing behind their products. Biggest delay was trying to figure out what the problem was which took the better part of a year, made longer by our short riding season. I'll have to remember not to install parts with a 6 month warranty just before putting the bike away for the winter. If you purchase a Euro MotoElectics charging system I would recommend going to the EnDuraLast III which uses new as oppose to remanufactured parts.
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